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The Fourth Leg

A podcast dedicated to unpacking NC3, one of the most complex systems in the world today, with Philip Reiner and Peter Hayes

We go straight to the experts across multiple sectors, including nuclear, political, history, law, engineering, computer science, and security, to discuss the modernization of nuclear command, control, and communication systems (NC3).

In season one, we address emerging issues associated with the modernization of global NC3 systems and look at country-specific NC3 systems.

In season two, we zero in on the modernization of crisis communications and walk through the CATALINK initiative, a novel solution for a resilient, secure crisis communications hotline.

Communication Over Escalation

Podcast

Communication Over Escalation

In this episode of The Fourth Leg, Philip Reiner and Peter Hayes are joined by nuclear weapons and conflict resolution expert, Steven E. Miller, to discuss the historical significance and evolution of nuclear communications.
cold war, crisis communications, deescalation, hotlines, nuclear communications
October 27, 2020
Formally Verified

Podcast

Formally Verified

This episode of The Fourth Leg features Adam Wick, one of the world’s leading experts on secure operating systems design and implementation.
crisis communication, formal methods, formal proofs, NC3, operating systems, security
September 17, 2020
Security Through Simplicity

Podcast

Security Through Simplicity

Eric Grosse joins Philip Reiner and Peter Hayes to detail the trade-offs of prioritizing security, reliability, and efficiency in the CATALINK system.
Broker, cryptography, efficiency, Puck, reliability, ROCCS, security
July 6, 2020
The Mathematics of Trust and Betrayal

Podcast

The Mathematics of Trust and Betrayal

In this episode of The Fourth Leg, host Philip Reiner sits down with experienced cryptographer and owner and founder of Anagram Laboratories, Dr. Tom Berson.
crisis communication, cryptography, encryption, international standards, transparency
June 22, 2020
Assume Vulnerability

Podcast

Assume Vulnerability

In this episode of The Fourth Leg, Philip Reiner and Alexa Wehsener sit down with the High Priest of Coreboot, Ron Minnich. They dive into the substance of his paper, “Hardware that is Less Untrusted: Open Source Down to the Silicon” and discuss software, firmware, and hardware vulnerabilities and the value of open source code.
firmware, hardware, open source, silicon, software, vulnerability
June 8, 2020
Targeting Communications and Escalation

Podcast

Targeting Communications and Escalation

This week's episode of The Fourth Leg features the return of one of the “NC3 originals,” Paul Bracken from Yale University.
crisis communications, nuclear command, nuclear communications, nuclear escalation, nuclear war
May 28, 2020
Wake-Up Call

Podcast

Wake-Up Call

In the first episode of The Fourth Leg's season 2, we discuss the need for a better communication system between nuclear powers with Philip Reiner, Peter Hayes, Eric Grosse, Rear Admiral John Gower, and Subrata Banik.
communication, complexity, crisis communications, nuclear communications, nuclear crisis communications
May 13, 2020
NC3, Entanglement, and the Inadvertent Risk of Nuclear War

Podcast

NC3, Entanglement, and the Inadvertent Risk of Nuclear War

In this episode, Philip Reiner sits down with Dr. James Acton to understand how to evaluate the risk of inadvertent escalation arising from entanglement.
C3I, command and control, conventional conflict, dual-use, NC3, unconventional conflict
November 21, 2019
NC3 Threats: Insider Edition

Podcast

NC3 Threats: Insider Edition

Philip Reiner and Peter Hayes sit down with Dr. Ronald Schouten to discuss insider threats to nuclear command, control, and communications.
insider threats, nuclear command, nuclear weapons, risk
November 14, 2019
Are All Legal Bets Off?

Podcast

Are All Legal Bets Off?

William Boothby joins The Fourth Leg's Philip Reiner and Peter Hayes for a discussion on the legal limits surrounding the use of nuclear weapons.
accidental use, nuclear strike, nuclear weapons, offense, self-defense, United Nations
October 31, 2019
Starting from the Beginning

Podcast

Starting from the Beginning

In this episode of The Fourth Leg, Paul Davis joins Philip Reiner and Peter Hayes to discuss how to approach NC3 modernization. Rather than looking at the myriad of structural and technical issues associated with modernizing NC3, he instead argues that modernization should go back to the basics: what core functionality should be demanded, and how should those demands should differ from those of the Cold War?
cold war, NC3, NC3 modernization, nuclear accidents, nuclear control, nuclear weapons, technical
October 24, 2019
The End of Survivability?

Podcast

The End of Survivability?

In this episode of The Fourth Leg, Philip Reiner and Peter Hayes are joined by guest Daryl Press, who focuses on the growing threats to nuclear command and control and communication (NC3) systems around the world.
global stability, NC3, nuclear command, nuclear control, nuclear risk, strategic stability, vulnerabilities, vulnerable NC3
October 17, 2019
Elements of Caution and Prudence

Podcast

Elements of Caution and Prudence

In this episode of The Fourth Leg, Philip Reiner and Peter Hayes sit down with Avner Cohen to explore Israel's NC3 profile.
Israel, Middle East, NC3, NC3 architecture, nuclear command, nuclear control, nuclear weapon state
October 10, 2019
An Altogether Different Set of Challenges

Podcast

An Altogether Different Set of Challenges

Philip Reiner and Peter Hayes are joined by Feroz Hassan Khan for a conversation on the nuclear command, control, and communications of Pakistan.
delegation, NC3, NC3 architecture, nuclear deterrent, nuclear war, Pakistan
September 26, 2019
When and Why Cede Nuclear Authority

Podcast

When and Why Cede Nuclear Authority

In this segment, Dr. Vipin Narang joins Philip Reiner and Peter Hayes to challenge the delegative/assertive binary, arguing that, while conceptually important, it has hamstrung our thinking of regional powers’ NC3 by forcing them into one bin or another when it is in fact a time-dependent spectrum: all states delegate—that is, cede the ability to use nuclear weapons, irrespective of the authority to do so—at some point.
assertive, delegative, hardware, NC3, NC3 architecture, nuclear command, nuclear control, regional powers, software
September 18, 2019
United Kingdom: Nuclear Weapon, Command, Control, and Communications

Podcast

United Kingdom: Nuclear Weapon, Command, Control, and Communications

In this episode, Rear Admiral John Gower joins Philip Reiner and Peter Hayes to discuss the UK nuclear weapon command, control, and communications architecture. He goes into detail on the multiple communication paths, frequencies, fall-back systems, and encryption needed to continuously enable the UK's Prime Minister to act on a nuclear launch decision.
crisis communications, encryption, NC3, nuclear launch, nuclear weapons, systems, United Kingdom
September 12, 2019